Lawlz. Cute little atheist attempting to be smart by making religious people look bad. Such dogmatic irony. Hitler was the most famous closeted atheist dictator in the world, contrasting the more publicly anti-religious Stalin and Zedong. To quote Schopenhauer "Religion is the masterpiece of animal training." Hitler was never religious to begin with; in his own book he started praising science, saying how in the near future it'll replace Christianity. He was quite the genius though. He used Christ's crucifixion as key to establish an official hatred toward the Jews, blaming them for his death. Hitler made Christianity the national religion for the people and lower Nazi members and made himself a cult of personality, but he and the high-ranking officers like Goebbels, Speer and Himmler were secular and/or atheists.
It's funny how religion is used as a scapegoat for the crimes of the past 5,000 years. Is religion a material being? Did religion massacred 100,000,000 people? You could attempt to contradict me by saying that "Religion is the backbone of [insert historic genocide here] because of its destructive influence and doctrine]" but you fail to realize that it is the act of humankind that kills, not religion itself. Also, if religion influences a man to kill, what do you say about atheist killers? Surely they did not have an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other telling them what to do and what not to do because for the atheist they do not exist.
Your a funny guy. Let's look to past events involving religion:
The Spanish Inquisition: Burnt nearly 5000 people at the stake, including Protestants, Jews and "blasphemers". The Crusades: Christians fighting simply because the Pope said that heretics had taken over the Holy Land, leading to multiple wars between Christians and Muslims over some place important to both their religions. The War in the Middle East: Muslim extremists are blamed for blowing up the Twin Towers, against the teachings of the Qur'an. George Bush says that America will go on a crusade against these extremists, making matters worse by bringing religion into it ("crusade" meaning "holy war")
Religion is like politics, with one exception. Whereas capitalism is on the rise (through basic human greed overpowering the less corrupt communism), religion is on the downfall as more people realise how stupid the tales of "God creating man in his own image, even though no man looks the same" actually are. But alas, such stupidity is expected by those who refuse to believe logic and facts.
In Europe, Religion > Atheism and other religions... until the 20th century.
In America, atheism > religion. Look at Mexico for example. Some guy named Elias Calles (an atheist, of course) commanded the extermination of religion (chiefly Catholicism) because he thought religion would never allow socialism and rationality to flourish. Hell, Argentina's very own Che Guevara had a similar view on religion.
I'm more concerned with where Australia sits in that, rather than Europe or America. But more importantly, how religion has played a large part in the majority of wars since the major religious beliefs of the modern day were first created. I could've listed more, but what's the point when I could just point out the crusades and remove half the list in one line. But let's move back to your other post.
1) Hitler wasn't an atheist, he was a pagan. 2) Yes, humans kills, not religion. However, a lot kill because of religion. 3) Religion uses religion for a scapegoat just as much as atheism does. Case in point, the West Memphis Three, accused of the murders of three boys in West Memphis, Arkansas, with the murder apparently being part of a satanic ritual. Which also disproves (in some states) your statement about America counting atheism above religion. 4) Atheists are influenced to kill the same way religious people are. However, some religious people, such as yourself, claim that they listen to an angel and devil on their shoulder. The "shoulder angel" and "shoulder devil" are personifications of part of the human subconscious, the side telling you not to kill being the angel, and the other being the devil. 5) Elias Calles is right, religion doesn't allow for rationality to flow. Why? Because of faith. Whereas atheism follows what humans learn through science, which adjusts its views based on what's observed, faith is the opposite, the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.
*Hitler was anything but Catholic, though. Just because he shook hands with Catholic priests doesn't mean he was one. Obama shook hands with Israeli officials, is he Jewish?
*"a lot kill because of religion" I thought a lot killed for money and black market business as well as drugs.
*The killers were also drug abusers, so it's not surprising they would kill as an offer for "the Devil".
*I'm a lapsed Catholic, but both sides are annoying me with their "God/No God" argument. So I just sit on the bleachers now. My current belief is a mixture of agnostism, apatheism and deism. As for the Angel/Devil argument, it's basically the personification of one's thought and perception of what's "good/right" and what is "evil/wrong". Again, this is all about perception; every individual has a different view on "morality".
*"Whereas atheism follows what humans learn through science, which adjusts its views based on what's observed, faith is the opposite, the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." That doesn't explain why scientists with religious beliefs still exist. In fact, a large number of scientific contributors in different fields were religious figures. In astrophysics Georges Lemaitre is deemed the "father of the big Bang". He was a Catholic priest. In genetics Georges Mendel is the main contributor to the field. He was a friar. The former, Lemaitre, was accused of aggregating his religious beliefs to his studies by Fred Hoyles (an atheist who thought the universe was static), claiming that the theoretical universal expansion from one atom sounded similar to God's creation of earth. Should their religious beliefs water down their legacy and footprint in science? You make it sound as it religion and science are natural enemies. Even the late Carl Sagan would disagree with your sentiments. Besides, Calles murdered innocent people due to their religion in the same way you'd say religious people killed the innocent as well. I call that an equalizer.
1) Who said Hitler was Catholic? I said he was a Pagan. Paganism isn't Catholicism.
2) Yes, a lot kill from drugs, money and the black market. But like I said, a lot also kill because of religion. Hell, in the Middle East, you have two different groups of Muslims killing each other over slightly differing beliefs.
3) None of the accused were Satanists, so why would they sacrifice those kids to the Devil? Also, all three claimed to be innocent, and evidence found leading up to their retrial helped to prove this, including one of the witnesses admitting that what she told police was a fabrication and imprints of their teeth not matching bite marks on the victims' bodies.
4) I agree, the argument is getting annoying. However, until either religion or atheists have been wiped from the face of the earth, it shall continue. Even if they end up officially ending the argument, there are fanatics that will continue it. As for the Angel/Devil argument, that is the same basic thing as what I said. The human subconscious deems what's good/right and evil/wrong, and the angel and devil are personifications of it.
5) It doesn't say why they still exist because it isn't supposed to explain why they exist. It's not saying that people like Mendel and Lemaitre don't exist. It's saying that people in their religion will blindly follow their faith no matter what's presented to them and, in some cases, use their religion as a way to force their beliefs on others. The Spanish Inquisition, for example. The Westboro Baptist Church, more commonly known as the "God-Hates-Fags Guys", are another, more modern example. As for what Calles did, that's exactly what I said in point two. People kill people over differing beliefs. A man, whether religious or atheist, has that potential to kill. Differing beliefs is one of the big reasons people kill, as stated above. I wasn't defending what he did, if you were implying as such, I was merely pointing out the reason why he was right, without worrying about his methods.
So in short, it's not religion that affects the world, it's human action, selfishness and flat-out degenerates that affect us. Both religious and atheist people have killed millions for their [non-]beliefs; to blame everything to the other is pure bull.
What's so different about the Crusades and the massive killings performed by Communist governments other than their views on religion, class and race?
The Crusades were the direct effects of people's religious beliefs being used as an excuse to kill, not as a scapegoat, but as a legitimate reason (although, some crusaders used the defeated Islamic forces own beliefs as an excuse to loot after battles). These mass-killings were performed by Communist dictators, some of which (such as Stalin) had some kind of mental problem such as paranoia, as opposed to true Communists. Those dictators would order these mass-killings for various reasons, not all of which would be linked to Communism except as a scapegoat. True Communist governments (which, unfortunately, basic human greed forbids such things from existing for long) believe in truly equal rights and as such, have no reason to execute millions for reasons such as religion, class or race. People's beliefs do play a part in what affects the world, as it is through religious beliefs that the crusades happened, through political beliefs that WW2 and the Cold War happened, and a mix of the two and others that every war, major or minor, since the Middle Ages has happened.
You look at the Ancient Greeks and Romans, the Egyptians, the Japanese, etc, they went to war either for the others land or to form a single unified nation (something Hitler tried and failed to do, although in his case, he was motivated by his beliefs in the Aryan people's alleged superiority), not because someone else had differing political and religious views. It is since the dawn of Christianity and Islam (Judaism having already existed before then) that religion has played a part in humanity's killings of it's own kind. However, modern society places a person's beliefs above expansionism when it comes to war, wasting millions of dollars on trying to "eradicate the hated [insert religion/political party name here] from the face of the Earth."
Yes, it's BS to blame everything on the other, as they both have their share of events in history where the other has been persecuted and killed. However, this entire conversation started as "mass-killings caused by people's religious beliefs", not "religion is bad and everyone who believes in a god/gods should go home and die." As stated multiple times previously, people's religious views have led to many wars. That is the point that this entire conversation has been trying to get across.
Those priests aren't saluting. That's how they bless people. Been like that for a few thousand years. I know that you have probably never gone to a Catholic Church, but you should at least have known that that is how American saluted the flag before WWII. It's called the Roman Salute for Pete's sake.
You should study a bit more of history, try to guess who are those 2 german officers on the picture to the left. In that picture those priests were in fact saluting Hitler. The same is true for the second one.
I am an ex catholic and I studied for over 15 years in a catholic school named Colegio Christus, be careful when you make such assumptions.
My Etsy Shop:
Holidays dear humans
:+fav: this journal
to have a cha...
Please play the song
while viewing this
journal. I've tried
my hardest to create
a, well, a kind of
experience for you.
The music plays a
crucial role in
experience and a
message. I promise
you won't regret it.
Just make sure the
whole journal is
loaded, turn on
deviantMEET in Las
Vegas hit the
already lined up
outside the doors at
5:00 PM, even though
the event wasn't
scheduled to start
until 5:30! (A
handful of amazingly
deviants arrived as
early as 3:30 PM!)
The Most Popular
ever wondered who
the most popular
characters are at
post on Trending
Terms in October. It
got me thinking
DeviantART in terms
of deviation count.
I'm going to need...
Working with color
can be difficult no
matter what medium
you choose, but it
can be especially
Learning how to mix
your own colors is
equally as important
as learning how to
apply them to your
work.1. No matter
what your art
teacher says, YOU
CAN use black and
^Nyx-Valentine arrived in our community and started whipping everyone into a frenzy with her relentless desire to bring the Artistic Nude and Fetish galleries to the fore. 9 years later, and it's safe to say that Nyx is not only a leader as a photographer in these galleries, but she has also established herself as a much saught after model. ^... Read More